What's wrong with this article?

Christians who do not apply... i think rick got it wrong here... poor exegesis leads to poor application...(read Gordon Fee's How To).

1. Application should not be the starting point of any preaching. it is one thing to begin with the end in mind , HOWEVER it is another thing to fit the message into the passage. No doubt there are boundaries. Anyone preaching on 1 Cor 7 would be talking about marriage and singlehood. There is an expectation that the message would be within the boundaries of marriage and trusting in God for the providence of marriage. The application should fall within the context. IF one begins with application in mind, THEN that preacher would not be open to the possibilities that God may direct. It would bring limitation to the text itself.

2. To begin with application means that one would need previous inputs to understand the passage. Again, that person would only attached one form of application to the text, and upon reading the text another time, would not have arrive to new revelations, conclusions and application of the same text. Our bible is a LIVING word. It challenges us differently each time we read the passage. It challenges us in different seasons of our lives. Again, the same 1 cor 7 may challenge a single as much as someone coming out of a relationship. SO to limit to just ONE form of application is to say that God is finite.

3. I strongly disagree with Rick's view on doctrines. Doctrines CAN be applied. Just read JI Packer's Knowing God or Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology ( Theology should be sung! TO move from theology to doxology is a lifetime journey). A correct understanding of doctrines helps us to understand a much bigger, larger than life God. To just focus on application aspects of christianity is to say that the amount of work that theologians had put into in the past is just a waste of time. A lot of HOW our churches function, worship , and minister is based on doctrines. TO throw away doctrines is the single most dangerous thing to do- a problem i foresee in the modern church...
i had a strong suspicion that rick is a 'grace' preacher. He misses the point: Yes - there is grace - but there is truth as well. the grace that rick talks about is a human level understanding of grace ( oh by the grace of God, i did this and that) BUT the correct understanding of grace is found in the DOCTRINE of salvation... that we do not deserve to be God's children , but God gave us this opportunity to go back to him... check out Boice's final piece of work before he passed on : the doctrine of grace.

4. What's in for me, vs What's in for God? It seems all these attention is to target the self-help crowd. I have no doubts that God has something for me with regards to relationship , money , health and work issues. But outside of this, we misses the big story. All these sufferings and struggle is to help us tell the story of salvation to another person, to really respond to the call in matthew 28- to disciple unto nations. That is the purpose the God had for the Israel nation.

5. TO split Romans into doctrine and application sections is just not treating the bible with respect. Paul is writing a letter that addresses many issues (see Moo's opening introduction on his NIV APPLICATIONAL commentary on romans). i dont think Paul would have agreed with Rick that his letter is meant to be 'simplified' or 'milked' in such a way. Also, to criticize preachers who preach 2 sermons out of 5 verses is to show how shallow Mr Warren can be at times. I believe he has John Piper in mind.( who preached the whole Romans in his church for over 9 years!) I simply think that Mr Warren should check his own spiritual level before making such comments- cos the people like John Piper poured out their lives into the word and do make it applicational at the end of it. That is outright disrespect for other preachers. There are much to learn from someone like Piper in the art of preaching. (you will be surprise at how Piper treats issues such as sex and money) IT is not meant for the faint hearted that's for sure.

6. One final point that I do agree with rick is the portion : "Some of the most cantankerous Christians I know are veritable storehouses of Bible knowledge, but they have not applied what they know. They can give you facts and quotes, and they can argue doctrine, but they’re angry, very ugly people." yes.. he is absolutely right. SOme of the most gifted bible scholars cannot minister to people effectively. Some bible class teachers are more likely a modern day pharisees than being Jesus in the classrooms. BUT that should not make us swing to the other extreme and and totally ignore going into things like doctrines.
we would then become ignorance of the more difficult questions in christianity. Eventually , people will raise these questions again one day- eg, the popular argument about free-will and sovereignty of God, with respect to salvation + other life issues.



Application and Preaching
Rick Warren
Preaching: How do you think through this whole issue of application as you are dealing with the text or the biblical theme? Walk me through that process as you think through how this applies to the lives of people.

Warren: The big thing is building a bridge between then and now. You have interpretation on one side, you have personalization on the other side, and in the middle you have the implication. The key is always finding the implication of the text. The interpretation — commentators tend to live in that world. Personalization — communicators tend to live in this world. It’s a fine line, and you can fall off on either side. It is easy to be biblical without being contemporary or relevant. It is easy to be relevant without being biblical. The test is right there in the middle, walking that fine line.
We don't have to make the Bible relevant — it is — but we have to show its relevance. What is irrelevant, in my opinion, is our style of communicating it. We are tending still to use the style from 50 years back that doesn't match who we are trying to reach today.
When I start with an application, I first start with personal application. Nearly 20 years ago, I wrote a book on Bible study methods, on how to apply the Bible. It sold a couple hundred thousand copies. In fact, Billy Graham picked it up and gave it to every evangelist in Amsterdam. In it I talk about a dozen different ways to apply Scripture, so you start with your own life and you make applications there. A lot of it is just simple stuff like: Is there a sin to confess, a promise to claim, an attitude to change, a command to obey, an example to follow, a prayer to pray, an error to avoid, the truth to believe. Is there something to praise God for? So, I start looking at it like that.
I also go back to the paradigm of 2 Timothy 3:16. Doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness is basically these four things: What do I need to believe as a result of this text? What do I not need to believe as a result of this text? What do I need to do as a result of this text? What do I need not to do as a result of this text? That is doctrine for reproof, correction, and instruction of righteousness. So, I use that format. Start with personal application, then you go for the implication — what people need in their lives.
The biggest thing I would say about application is that every pastor eventually gets to application. I'm just saying he needs to start with it, not end with it. A lot of guys need to start where they end their sermon. They will do about 80 to 90 percent explanation and interpretation in background study, and then at the end there is a little 10 minute application. Now, that is OK if you have a highly motivated group of people who just love Bible knowledge, but the Bible says there are a couple of problems with Bible knowledge. In the first place, it says knowledge puffs up but love builds up, and the Bible says increased knowledge without application leads to pride. Some of the most cantankerous Christians I know are veritable storehouses of Bible knowledge, but they have not applied what they know. They can give you facts and quotes, and they can argue doctrine, but they’re angry, very ugly people. The Bible says knowledge without application increases judgment. To him that knows to do good and does it not, it is sin. So, really, to give people knowledge and not get the application is a very dangerous thing.
Here is an interesting thing: Look at the Bible and take the books of the New Testament; find out how much of the Bible is application. It really will change the way you preach. For instance, I once preached through the book of Romans for two-and-a-half years, verse by verse. I do both verse with verse exposition — which I call topical exposition — and I do verse by verse exposition, which is book by book. Two kinds of teaching for two different targets and two different purposes, and they both are needed for a healthy church. To say you only need one, I think is ridiculous. One is far more effective for evangelism, and one is far more effective for edification.
Romans is the most doctrinal book in the New Testament. Yet, how much of Romans is really application? Chapter one, doctrine. Chapter two, doctrine. Three doctrine. Four, doctrine. Five, doctrine. Six, application. Seven, application. Eight, application. Nine, doctrine. Ten, doctrine. Eleven, doctrine. Twelve, application. Thirteen, application. Fourteen, fifteen, sixteen — application. So you have a book of 16 chapters and fifty percent is application. Even the most doctrinal book of the Bible is half life application. Then you go to Ephesians. Half of the book is doctrine, half is application. Colossians, first half of the book is doctrine, the second half is application, fifty percent. You get to a book like James — 100 percent application. Proverbs, 100 percent application. Sermon on the Mount, 100 percent application.
So my cry is: Pastors just do more of it. You already know you have got to apply in people's lives; you have just got to do more of it. If that means cutting back … I think sometimes in our preaching we are far more interested in a lot of the details and backgrounds than people are. A guy who spends three weeks on one verse is missing the point of the verse. Truthfully, it’s like looking at Mona Lisa with a microscope. Every single word — God didn't mean for it to be read that way. He is missing the point of it. People who say, “I don't do topical preaching” but then take an entire two weeks for two verses, what are they doing? They are doing topical preaching. They are just using it as a jumping off point.

Preaching: How much of the sermon should be application versus explanation of the text?

Warren: I personally believe 50 percent. I know Bruce Wilkinson once did a study of great preachers. He went back and studied Spurgeon and Moody, Calvin, and Finney, both Calvinists and Arminians. Then he studied contemporaries like Charles Stanley and Chuck Swindoll. He discovered those guys were anywhere from 50 to 60 percent, some at 70 percent, application.
What we normally do in a structure of a message is interpretation and then application of a point, then the next interpretation and the next application, the next interpretation and the next application. I am suggesting that if you want to reach pagans you actually just reverse that procedure. You still get both — it’s just the way you do it. Instead of getting up and going through a long background on the Sermon on the Mount passage on worry and explaining, I stand up and say, “Isn't it a fact of life that we all deal with worry? Well, today we are going to look at six reasons why Jesus said we shouldn't worry.” Then you make your application the points of your message.
People don't remember much. If you are motivated, you remember about seven bits of information; if you’re not motivated you remember about two. If they are only going to remember one thing, what do I want them to remember? I want them to remember the application, the lessons, not a cute outline of text. The alliterated outline is not going to change their lives. So I say, make your applications your points because the points are all they are going to remember.
It is more important to be clear than it is to be cute. So I’ll say, “Here are the three things you have learned.” Here is the contemporary application and underneath it you go back and cover the background. Here is the point, and you go back and cover the background. It is the exact same thing — it is just the order — and what that does is increase retention and interest.
I am pastoring a church in California where maybe 77 percent of the people were saved and baptized there. Without question, Saddleback is the most evangelistic church in America. We have baptized 7,800 new believers in the last seven years. No church has ever done that – 1,100 baptisms a year. I preached this year at Easter where we set up a 5,000-seat tent with seven services. We had 33,000 for Easter — which is about a typical number — and we had 2,082 adult professions of faith. That is a crusade! To have 2,000 people saved — well, how does that happen? It happens when your focus is preaching for transformation, for changed lives. (Adapted from a Preaching magazine interview with Rick Warren.)

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